This was going to be a short filler post and I am finally done with it…three hours later so I can go back to catching up from the conference backlog! I enjoy the discussion in the past week about rants, sellouts and relationships with blogs vs bloggers and stuff like that because it is very EDUCATIONAL! “Educate” is included in the TBB blog’s mission! This blog’s core is about reviewing miles/points blogs. Many have become big businesses and are no longer a hobby. So…we deal with it and so should you as you see fit. If you don’t like to have your business criticized you should never come near my blog. I always welcome the criticism. Extra points if you make me laugh!
TBB Blog Mission: To Entertain. Educate. Inspire. In That Order
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I believe one of the BEST comments ever was the following by Steve in this post about Sellouts at the Travel is Free blog. That Steve posts here as (That Other) Steve by the way. Maybe comment of the year?
Pump This!
smittytabb: [For the record, this type of comment would never stand in a blog like Delta Points] Ok, let me give it to you straight George. I am at the Chicago Seminars. I live a few hours away and I came to the event for the third time and actually felt somewhat guilty doing so because of all of your haraunging. I won a prize in the raffle for the third year in a row. I always win these things everywhere I go. I am not a newbie, as you know, but I came anyway. I carefuly chose my meeting sessions. And guess what. I know this will shock you, but no one attempted to sell me a credit card the whole weekend. I am not making this up. What happens on the blogs is not a reflection of what happens at this event at all. I think you need to stop the Twitter rampage using the #ChicagoSeminars hashtag. It seems at bit odd to me that you would try to inject yourself into the event in this way. This event is a sharing of info of people at all levels. I chose my sessions wisely and I had a good time and even learned a few things, less each time, but it was worth my time. I got to meet Drew and Carrie which was fun as well. I had a chance to win a RedCard and was the only person in the room that knew the answer to FrequentMiler’s trivia question, so I told it to the guy next to me and he won. And for the record, Ingy’s talk on credit cards was fair and not a sell job at all. Ok there you have it.
TBB: [My response because I always get the last laugh here as it is my blog hehe]:
Give it to me straight!
I am glad you had a good time and learned a few things. I would venture to guess that the things you learned have been blogged about by these bloggers but we all know some repetition is good.
Now let me give it right back at you 
I am glad you did not spend money to travel there and for lodging (for some reason I thought you lived out West!) as, imho, I don’t think this meeting is worth it. But hey we are all different!
OF COURSE NO ONE ATTEMPTED TO SELL YOU A CREDIT CARD, THEY DO ENOUGH OF THAT ON THEIR BLOGS, LOOK AT THE DARN GRAPHIC I PUT UP! These meetings are to enhance or begin personal relationships, show off “expertise” and in general let attendees leave with a good feel for the businessmen/women running these online marketing operations. Because, you know, people end up doing business with people they personally like.
It is very obvious to me that many newbies there have no clue so me injecting the hashtag leading them to some material that will EDUCATE them is fine. Hey, I did that with #Bacon14 so I am not sure what is the big deal, I see it as EDUCATION!
Drew and Carrie are cool but I am so disappointed to see them there. And to others in my two good lists.
Don’t get me started about ingy now. FTG still attempts to shove 7 cards at once down newbie’s throats! Again, read above about being nice and all. The selling happens on the blogs every freaking day in almost every post.
Even more frantic blog posts today about the ‘final hours” of the Chase Ink Plus…
It never ends…
I need to get a life and fight the system from within
smittytabb: [No doubt Delta Points will ban her hehe] This isn’t about Karma. You ask Howie. I didn’t go to any of his presentations. And again, my point is this. I am not a fan of binary thinking or black and white thinking. There are always shades of grey. Everyone that is here on this site is not angry. And everyone who goes to Chicago Seminars is not a wide eyed deer in the headlights. Every blogger you respect need not boycott this event in order to make a point. Of course they are there to market their personalities. I enjoy taking part in some of the shared expertise. Ben is incredibly knowledgeable and a great speaker and I went to everything he presented. I skipped many others on purpose. He sells credit cards. I get that. Some people will be taken in by all kinds of things. Some people are sophisticated and discerning. I have been an educator at all levels during my career. Teaching people to be discerning and giving them the skills to make informed decisions is a better play than bashing individuals and events. And I did stay in the hotel. There’s an IHG promotion now and it was a good rate.
TBB: I appreciate the thoughtful response.
>>>>>>>>>He sells credit cards
Really? How long did it take you to GET that? I bet you a vast portion of the attendees did NOT know that. And if, in passing , knew that they would have no idea how that dominates our “hobby”. Because, you know, every single one of them up there loves to talk about the “hobby” which is a bunch of horse shit when if it was not for the credit cards they would NOT be doing this! Well, maybe not Ben because that’s all he knows anyway and is still young and single.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Some people will be taken in by all kinds of things.
Does that mean we can pump them 24/7 without impunity and without expressing an opinion here that doing this is WRONG? You know, like pumping unsuspecting gulllible readers who happened to read or watch a Nightline segment with 14 mentions of FREE all over it with hideous Credit Card “Tools” that pretty much every combination you give it it “expertly” recommends five or seven travel reward credit cards (the SAME ones!) when you are only looking for ONE FREAKING CASH BACK card. And then has the audacity to recommend to the poor newbie to apply for all seven at once. WTF!
It’s a free country and we all do what we want. I think attending such “seminars” legitimizes horrendous practices. I think they should be scorned. But this is my opinion. Maybe I am just angry…I don’t know.
>>>>>>>>Teaching people to be discerning and giving them the skills to make informed decisions is a better play than bashing individuals and events.
And please tell me how do these blogs do that when so much of their content is SO dominated by what lines their pockets in a frenzied race to keep their sales numbers so they can continue keeping their lucrative cc links? There are some cards out there that NEVER get mentioned because they don’t get paid. When an affiliate version comes out then they ALL pump it like the greatest card of all time with ridiculous headlines (hurry, only hours left, last call) and other BS.
Like I said, I may be just an angry white man. Actually, I had an awesome day today.
Please be gentle with hypocrite accusations when i jump in the ring. It’s way to get me to the TBB endgame because,you know, authority and all that jazz.
I just don’t like to be pumped. I made that very clear in my pumpization scheme post
smittytabb: Look, I completely agree that the space is filled with pimping and useless information. I know exactly what is important to me and what I want out of the hobby and what is valuable to me. I am an informed consumer of blogs and information. No amount of scorning the practices and events is going to change anything. If I do or don’t go to Chicago Seminars, the same things are going to happen. I hardly read Ben anymore either because of the fluff, but when he talks about creative award options to Asia, his opinions about the AA and US Airways merger and the leadership at Hyatt, I listen. When I go to apply for a credit card, I am more likely to give it to Rapid Travel Chai who more closely shares my philosophy on travel and who doesn’t pump at all. Or I will give it to Matt at Saverocity who will donate it to charity. I don’t live the pumping in this space and I do think it drives content on the blogs. P makes a good point about being embarrassed about pumping in person. The online space is very different from F2F and people say and do things they wouldn’t otherwise. That applies also to what people say here and sometimes I think that civility is lost. That was my point all along. Thanks everyone for a thoughtful discussion.
TBB: [Taking the opportunity to hammer my points because it just makes me feel better about myself] Thanks for the thoughtful post again.
My point all along has been: Pumping 24/7 your readers is hideous. Especially when you are selling “expertise” disguised as advice on how to travel for free by showing off yourself how you travel for “free” while you pump credit cards to everyone. There are better bloggers out there to get the information you need than these bloggers in my Ignore list who are so busy selling that they don’t have any time to work on the “hobby” and are mostly out of tune. It is a freaking con job imho. Paying money to go to their “seminars” just legitimizes their practices. You should come to the Ann Arbor Art Fair DO next year, no fees to attend! Look, I get your point about civility. The FTG dude dished so much of it here in this blog! Look at what civility has brought in this space, it has become a giant circus. Somebody needs to stand up and tell them to their faces that their blogs SUCK! I am still raving mad about MMS’s post encouraging readers to “start” businesses so they can apply for an Ink Plus card…barf!
And now I am going to eat a sandwich
ABC: This space is filled with information. And most of it is worthless. Ask yourself what’s really important to you and what you want out of this hobby. It’s about knowing yourself and knowing what’s valuable to you.
Sell Outs Talk, IHG Rewards Promo Debacle, Havana, Train from Hungary to Iran, Greece, Steve Jobs, 401(k) Plans
ABC: …Lufthansa gate has yet to be resolved [Still no statement. As long as there is none we are left to assume some blog revealing “secrets” tried to get the full credit of “researching” from someone else’s work….one of the finest examples of being in the business of selling “expertise” for…well, what else, credit cards duh!!!!]
james: …the whole “DP and FTG are nice guys in person” argument makes me roll my eyes. First of all, DP and FTG are internet bullies – see how they act on FT. but all that aside, how nice people they are have no merit on the content they produce. I’m sure President Bush and President Obama are nice people if you meet them, in fact i think BOTH would be fun to “hang out” with. but that’s like saying that you can’t criticize the merits of their actions as president bc they are nice guys. a that’s a little is a little off putting.
harvson3: Drew’s discovery that Rick and Rene are friendly and polite in person recalls the Daily Show’s clip of Maria Bartoromo being surprised by John Thain’s assertion that things are good. Of course Rene’s friendly in person at the Chicago Seminars. He’s there as a salesman. On the internet, in non-face-to-face interactions, it’s another story. He gets criticized because he misleads readers to line his pockets and deletes comments that point to better offers.
[What follows is an incredible back and forth of commenters, including responses by Drew of Travel is Free….so many, please go read if you are interested…I only post a few representative ones and I am probably botching the job as the context may be missing…but I want to make this not too ridiculously long…so please forgive me!]
(That Other) Steve: I think if you title a blog post “Who’s Really Sold Out In This Game,” and your conclusion is that it isn’t the bloggers who sold out, it’s the readers who complain about selling out who are the sellouts, then you have to be prepared for some pushback from, well… a few readers. To extend on what I wrote in the comments of your blog: Most readers don’t have a relationship with Rene; they have a relationship with Delta Points. They don’t have a relationship with Daraius; they have a relationship with Million Mile Secrets. They don’t have a relationship with Ben; they have a relationship with One Mile at a Time. And it’s your privilege to have a different relationship with those individuals as humans and not just bloggers and to judge them based on their personality face to face rather than the character they present in their blog or in other online forums. But most of your readers, and readers of other blogs, do not. They judge based only on what they see and how they experience those relationships as readers. I think if you’re going to argue that we should differentiate the person from the blog, that’s fine. But if you’re going to do that, then you can’t tell people who are complaining about the blog’s apparent ethics that they don’t have a point because the dude is really nice in real life.
Maybe I’ll meet some of these people someday. Maybe not. I’m not under the impression any of them are bad people. I certainly don’t mind any of them making some money through the work they do. But I do think it is naive to say, “Well, I just won’t read those people that I don’t like,” and leave it at that – or worse yet, knock others who go further and complain. Because I’m not sure it’s just about “liking” people, as if ethical concerns were really just silly debates about taste or aesthetics. I genuinely think some readers think that the behavior of some bloggers is problematic. They don’t like to see bloggers profiting by enticing newcomers to make what they – rightly or wrongly – perceive as questionable choices. I think that’s a fair concern. If a lot of complainers go far in judging not just the blog content but painting with a broad brush the core character of the human behind them – and boy do they do that! – then sure, push back. But, like bluecat says above, it might be nice to acknowledge some of the points made.
bluecat: I think readers do establish (weird) “relationships” with the bloggers, and bloggers encourage that. They strive to build (weird, Internet) relationship with people by sharing much of their private lives with them. These tidbits—FTG’s family members, Dariaus popping the question to Emily, Ben’s pajamas, MP’s kiddie pictures—these are all areas that we all normally would consider *private matters* but, to build rapport (and, therefore, readership) they do this. What I’m saying is ALL these guys have built a (weird, have to keep saying that) connection to their readers.
I think it’s human nature to consider all of these (over sharing) bloggers as good guys, until, like your bartender or hairdresser who starts to cheat us, we feel betrayed.
It’s hard, for me anyways, to separate the blog from the blogger once they have established that rapport. [This sounds like it can be a great thesis for a Ph D. student!]
(That Other) Steve: There’s the blog we can read, the blogger we get to know through the medium of the blog, and then there’s the person we could meet in real life who may or may not be exactly as they seem online. We of course associate every blog writer with their blog. We think of the them as one and the same, whether its Daraius/MMS or Drew/TIF. We can know a lot about the blogger through what they tell us personally and feel we have a relationship with them. But actually meeting that person in real life (at an FTU, for example) would reveal so much more. At that point, we have a chance to go beyond their online persona, their business model, their quirks of writing style. Same would be for Drew as for Daraius. (Doesn’t mean there are no differences – Drew seems different because he’s very raw and personal; MMS seems like a puppet show). But since I probably will never meet either person, all I can really evaluate is what I read.
What follows is a fascinating exchange between Steve, Drew and me ending with Drew saying stuff like this “I hope I never show someone I care for them like you seem to. Not in real life.” and “Honestly, I don’t want to be associated with this crowd. This will probably be my last comment here” and “the insults about the writing, the unrelated gossip, the love me until you hate me, the angry tone… personally I don’t need or want it. This is not a movement in the hobby I personally want to be associated with.” and me replying to this emotional response with ” I am speechless, disappointed you feel this way and I am really sleepy. And my stomach is on fire with all them spicy chicken wings. Do what u gotta do. Thanks for the awesome content so far.”
TWA44: Plus one to SmittyTabb and plus a lot more to MileNerd’s followup “rant” today. I do hope that MN’s post today will put an end to all this bickering. I have remained silent, because with all the comments, the points I might have made had already been made countless times. I will say just two things:
1) The fact that a person has been writing a blog for “x” number of years does not make him or her a good writer. Most of the bloggers I read, and I am pretty selective, could benefit from some efforts to improve their writing skills. There are some exceptions – Sam of Milenomics and Scott of HackMyTrip come to mind and there are a few others – but in general I am appalled on a daily basis at the poor grammar and idea development I see on most of the blogs in the travel hacking space. There is little if any outside editing done on the work of bloggers in this space and it shows. It is also understandable, if too bad.
Indeed, the derivation of the word “blog” is the combination of “web” and “log” and the earliest ones on the net were similar to personal journals of their authors. But the blogs metamorphosed from personal journals into theme-based efforts, and that led to the entry of advertisers and affiliates, as bloggers realized they could monetize their daily ramblings. Monetization brought even more bloggers to the space. With that, the quality of the writing, which varied to begin with, dropped even lower. Monetization also encourages a rush to be the first to reveal a new hack, because the first guy just might get more clicks than those who follow. Writing in a hurry rarely produces a well-written piece.
2) The fact that someone is nice and friendly in personal interactions does not mean that he or she is an ethical person in his or her business dealings. I am certain that many of Bernie Madoff’s now ex-friends thought he was just the greatest guy. And they may have given him their money to invest because of that.
Moreover, we do a disservice to this space if we do not evaluate the work product a blogger produces. No need to call names or claim to hate someone, but the words bloggers write, the suggestions they offer, the strategies they develop and the interactions they have with their readers all must count. To my mind, these things count more than whether or not someone seems “nice” when I meet him or her.
Just my two cents. [Love your two cents! Thanks]
TBB Family Trip Report: Quebec City, Canada
TBB: I have no control of what people post here. Please keep it respectful and keep it on the blogsbusinesses and not personal.By you commenting here it does not mean I agree with you but I do respect the time you take to comment and express yourself.
Steve: We talk about the blogs, you critique the blogs. He wants us to stop criticizing the incessant credit card pumping, the censoring, the shady disclosure policies, the stealing of other peoples work…. because they’re nice people.
Sorry Drew, I like your blog. But my commentary on TBB won’t change, and neither should your content Buzz. You review blogs, not bow ties.
bluecat: For some reason that I can’t explain, I’m fascinated by the “blurring of lines” between blogger and blog content. Maybe because I’m old and I didn’t grow up with social media, where people share their bowel movement success…and chicken wing consumption (wing by wing!). 
Anyway, there was a time when the author was a little more “unknown” but that is certainly out the window these days, especially with our hobby. Bloggers foster these weird “relationships” by sharing personal pics, etc. Some exception exist, like “The Flight Deal” but most push their “personality” as much as their content.
I think it comes down to this: from Drew’s vantage point, as a fellow blogger, the two worlds (real life and blogger content) are distinct. From our perspective, they are nearly one in the same.
Anyway, interesting psychological study (to me, at least)
Steve: I don’t think anyone here cares about the bloggers personal lives except when it relates to the blog content
i.e. people will talk about the mother in law rule, make fun of the 1000 Emily pics per post or MP’s family because those are components of the respective blogs. By contrast, any discussion here of Lucky’s “personal life” is minimal to none, because it is never really discussed on the blogs
Repost: My Mega Trip Report riding Amtrak across US & on to Santiago, Chile and to Buenos Aires!
Steve: The anger and hatred MileNerd has towards TIF is obvious. Clearly he had a vendatta against that blog and his rant was directed at him. Or not….
http://www.milenerd.com/2014/10/day-after-letter/
“I didn’t single anyone out because I wasn’t talking to an individual. As always, I’m happy to point fingers. There are plenty of once-great blogs I now hate (see: MileValue). But, in this case, I was writing an open letter. Again, just about everyone understood that. Still, supporters of Travel Is Free wanted to make their voices heard. They emailed me, talking about how Drew is a great guy, how he’s open with his financial challenges, and on and on. So, I took an hour out of my insanely busy day to read through his blog.
And what did I find?
Actually, I found a guy who writes a lot like I do. And his content is much better than most. Really useful stuff for mile nerds everywhere. I’m a fan. True, his attempt at ranting was awkward/embarrassing/misguided/not his specialty, but everything else there is pretty great. As an artist, I felt inspired reading about someone with such a unique life. If you look on the right sidebar, I’ve added Travel Is Free to my very short list of blogs I like. Not many of these clowns deserve my limited time. This Drew guy does. If his blog is new to you, give it a read and let me know what you think”
Check out my updated blog lists: Blogs I Love, Blogs I Like, Blogs I Ignore
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TBB
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My first first? Or is the comment system just behind today…
That’s a lot of quotes. Second it is.
There’s only one “p” in Tupac. Your argument is invalid.
Very long blog post today TBB. I just read the first couple of paragraphs. It’s the internet, and attention span is limited. Sorry.
In the first or 2nd sentence above (quote) > I think that people like to feel a sense of relationship with the bloggers they read. When a blogger writes well, is personal, interactive, and says things that seem useful, then the reader feels a sense of relationship with the blogger, even when they don’t know them nor have even ever met them < (end quote).
My take… At first I agree. I've never met TBB, MMS and Angelina, yet I feel like I know them. I've met Gary, Ed, Lucky, Brian, and Rick. Rick is the warmest in person, followed by Brian, Ed, Lucky, and Gary (in that order). No offense to Gary for being last. I did meet Mommy once, and she's nice. I've met Mr Pickles, and can't say anything bad a blogger that writes once a week (what a novel idea).
I'm just rambling for entertainment value only. I don't mean to get TBB up in arms about my putting him in the same category as some of the bloggers on his Do Not Read List. 😉
Since I'm #4, and the Giants aren't doing so well tonight, I'm taking advantage of bandwith.
Next poster.
@jacobv84: Welcome to the Club!
@ smittytabb: Yeah, too many gems! 😉
@ harvson3: Lol…was hoping you will not notice!
@ dhammer53: Yeah, it is Saturday. Internet slows down in general. I would venture to guess you never voiced any criticism on that first one on the list. I have no problem with bloggers other than the ones I have repeatedly stated. Ok, back to what you were saying….Isn’t it amazing how we feel like we know each other only from online interactions? Just got back from a conference where I met several colleagues I have gotten to know through Twitter mostly…And, in most cases, real interaction resembles the person we have experienced online. Amazing indeed. Something not possible until, well, pretty recently! If I had a $100 bill for every time I heard “I feel like I know you”. Still feels kind of weird…but getting used to it.
The natives in Ann Arbor are way too depressed after another loss by that school in Lansing! The match up with Ohio State could be even more embarrassing….yikes…where did it all go wrong?
Parsing out smittytabb’s couple of comments:
I am at the Chicago Seminars
I live a few hours away
I came to the event for the third time and actually felt somewhat guilty doing so because of all of your haraunging.
I won a prize
I am not a newbie
I came anyway
I carefuly chose
I am not making this up
I chose my sessions wisely
I had a good time
it was worth my time.
I got to meet
I had a chance to win a RedCard
I told it to the guy next to me
I didn’t go to any of his presentations.
I am not a fan of binary thinking
I enjoy taking part
I skipped many others on purpose.
I get that. He sells credit cards.
I have been an educator
I did stay in the hotel
I completely agree that the space is filled with pimping and useless information.
I know exactly what is important to me and what
I want out of the hobby and what is valuable to me.
If I do or don’t go to Chicago Seminars, the same things are going to happen.
I hardly read Ben anymore…, but when he talks …,
I listen
I go to apply for a credit card, I am more likely to give it to
I don’t live the pumping in this space and
I do think it drives content on the blogs.
The online space is very different from F2F and people say and do things they wouldn’t otherwise.
I think that civility is lost
And finally:
everyone who goes to Chicago Seminars is not a wide eyed deer in the headlights.
You left out your underlying premise:
And anyone who is? Fvck ’em!
For evil men to prosper, it only needs good men to do nothing! (Or in this case, do something: go, spend money, support, shmooze, spend time, give the appearance of thinking what they do is just fine… and there is the end of civilization as we know it!)
🙂 thanks.