Let’s take a wild ride through a new blog that makes no excuses what is all about, another blog who has a conscience and acts on it, another one wondering the unthinkable to start using cash, we show you how another blogger fights being bullied, learn about a new and interesting website, we learn about Yosemite, Vancouver, the Dinka tribe in Sudan, weird art school in Japan and how to unclog a toilet. Fasten your seat belts. Weeeeeeeeeee!
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First2Board has a new blogger: Wallet Slot. And right out of the gate this one is on a major “sell, sell, sell” mode! First post was about the Lufthansa card, then it was the Barclays Arrival card (comparing it to a “Trophy husband” What?) and then, if that was not insulting enough, we get told to buy the Carnival card because she must be dreaming about such a card! Unbelievable! Welcome to the “Blogs I Ignore” list and for breaking the blog speed record for making it there! This is what TBB has been trying to do since Day One: upgrade the space in my passionate hobby that the last thing it needs is more credit card salespeople! And this from a blog aggregator that when it first came out its main point of attraction was “no affiliate links!” and I welcomed it as I am a firm believer in competition which Boarding Area can use some of. I have no misconception I am fighting a lonely uphill battle over here, no doubt! But hey, Rome was not built in one day. I know TBB IS making an impact and I look at myself in the mirror every morning and feel great about what I am doing here. Why? Please read on.
Matt at Saverocity wrote “Credit Cards don’t kill people...” You can skip the top part for now which refers to a specific earlier eye opening Manufactured Spending blog post. There is an important announcement about midway through the blog post. I quote [bold font is mine for emphasis]
“That leads onto the next, rather big issue that is worrying me most. Credit Cards don’t get you into debt, bad habits get you into debt. I believe it. We make money on this site from the sale of Credit Cards, and it is bothering me more and more that we do. I love that I can earn a commission from a card from someone like, MilesAbound or George from Travel Blogger Buzz, I am comfortable because I know they know money, this is just a bit of (lucrative) fun. But what about the average Joe and Joanne, when all you see is the upside, doesn’t that feed into the same problems our society faces everywhere, in areas such as the fashion industry creating a nation of insecure, bulimic children? By promoting this attitude how much harm are we actually causing?
It is time to re-evaluate strategies.
I was happy to implant credit card hyperlinks to the body of my posts in the past, attempting to identify when I did, but now the time for that is over. You should never apply for a card so whimsically because it is a simple click away, you should make a conscious decision to do so based upon your ability to manage credit, understand risk, and enjoy the rewards. I will keep the credit card pages on the site so if you should decide to apply, you can find my links if you so choose (and thank you if you do) but they will not be hidden in the text.
I am not trying to discount the value that can be found within Credit Card rewards, but I am trying to put a firing lock on applying for them, it shouldn’t be easy to get one, we should make it a really well thought out decision, and if you have any element of your finances that is in a mess, you should think twice as hard about applying, because they are enablers, and they can crush you.
Credit card debt destroys families. Using them wisely can without doubt be a benefit, but it is not a surrogate for hard work, careful money management and living within your means. Remember, when you see the wonderful trip reports, that more important than that is having a strong family foundation, love for those around you, and appreciation for what you have, not bragging rights to a First Class Ticket.”
I must admit this brought tears in my eyes. I have gotten so much crap from some people that what I am doing here is acting like a “gutless coward”, “shameful”, “tabloid buzzing” and other moronic angry rants. I have been threatened by lawsuits if I do not stop criticizing or do not delete readers’ comments who dared to speak their mind! Well, all I can say is, instead of the usual “Bite me” and “ignore trolls”, is THIS is what I am doing it for. More Saverocity type blogs and less Wallet Slots!
So, I will say it again and again until the cows come home! Please support blogs that add value to you and do not try to pump you upside the head daily with hideous excuses of getting the same old credit card affiliate links in your face! If you are newbie, you can start with my three blog lists I have prepared for you: Blogs I Love, Blogs I Like and Blogs I Ignore. TBB readers don’t let friends click on credit card ads found on Blogs in the Ignore List because all it does is getting them more greedy to pump more!
Wouldn’t it be great if we started a movement to get more blogs to compete on actual content without having us assaulted daily with endless credit card affiliate links and stupid excuses to come up with yet more of the same repetitive content? Of course banks will need to cooperate but they only understand the conversion numbers. So, hopefully the conversion numbers will start reversing a bit to stop rewarding the pump marketing machines? I sure hope so! Is it an almost impossible uphill battle? YES! But it’s a fight well fighting for. And remember: Credibility is your most important asset!
Speaking of this stuff, a loyal reader sent me a link to this article by that dude called Mr. Money Moustache: “MMM Receives Legal Threats – Great Lawyer Wanted“. Must read in my opinion. Standing up to bullies is just awesome! I bet that jackass who thought he can bully a blogger enjoys the taste of his medicine. I am not a big fan of MMM’s philosophy but I do enjoy his uniqueness and doing things differently, something which fits my own personality. So please let me see those letters, I can’t wait!
I was beyond excited after reading the latest interview Million Mile Secrets interview. Just kidding, meow!
Miles Abound wrote “Going all cash – should you stop using credit cards for everyday spend?” There are some great thoughts in this piece that should make you sit back and wonder about what you are doing. There is absolutely no doubt that you end up spending more with credit cards, NO DOUBT! Very interesting and thought provoking. There is also no doubt that banks still make a lot of money on newbies who are targeted by “travel” bloggers indiscriminately for credit cards to “travel for free” which allows them to keep giving out huge signing bonuses (and commissions to the sellers!) to us who take advantage of them. No doubt my family has benefited from such largesse and I can handle it. But I am not sure this is good for humanity. Yeah yeah personal responsibility and all that blah blah, sure. But why enable? I need to move on.
Miles to the Wild, a site devoted to birding, wrote about a new website I had never heard of before which looks interesting in this post “Multimodal Transport Search: Rome2Rio“. Because you can never fly in every corner of the world you should get some options on how to get there. I tested it by entering some locations in Greece and it was pretty accurate, I was impressed. It may help someone. I bookmarked it.
Yosemite in HD. Found at The Adventure Blog.
The TBB staff prides itself in the great education we provide here. And here it is one of the most helpful videos of all time we found to enlighten our readers! How to Unclog a Toilet Like a Plumber. By Lifehacker. Because stuff happens to all of us! You are welcome! If you need toilet paper please use our Amazon affiliate link at the top right corner, gracias! 🙂
Art School Graduation in Japan. At Twisted Sifter. These Japanese can get really weird sometimes. And I like it 🙂
Powerful Photographs Show The Daily Life of The Dinka People Of Southern Sudan. By Bored Panda. Powerful indeed.
Unreal images shot from a drone let us see Vancouver like we’ve never seen it before. By Matador Network. Incredible views. Are we becoming a Dronized society. Is it time for the TBBdrone? 🙂
I spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express last night:
Check out my updated blog lists: Blogs I Love, Blogs I Like, Blogs I Ignore
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George
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first?
right behind you!
Third, I think! And very interesting food for thought through the links this time.
Fourth, and damned proud of it.
Fifth! Because I am just slow, high five? 🙂
I couldn’t agree more with Matt’s post over at Saverocity — I’ve wondered for some time just how much “unreported” damage there is out there in this hobby from people who got themselves in trouble playing the credit card game. Understandably you never hear anything about that, but there must be plenty of people given the numbers we’re talking about. I was struck recently with just how pervasive this game has become when at a party someone was bragging about how they are constantly signing up for credit cards for miles, and you could just tell everyone listening in wanted to know how they could do it, too. It’s like a drug. Free travel! No one seems to realize one missed payment or other misstep has the potential to wipe out all that free profit.
At the end of the day, personal responsibility is important… but “amazing deal alerts” and posts screaming “ending today!” “hurry” etc., and even affiliate links like Matt noted, can’t be good for the karma of this hobby. As a personal practice, I now avoid mentioning credit card sign-up bonuses, etc. around people — just makes me too nervous that someone I know will get themselves in trouble all over 50,000 Southwest points or something.
(For what it’s worth, I think Ingy deserves some credit for how he used to always push his “your credit is your most important asset” line. Admittedly he did it while hawking credit cards, but its arguably much more than you see from virtually all of the other bloggers.)
I’m just waiting for the first spate of law suits that will allege bloggers misrepresented CC’s and presented the offers in a biased way. The lawsuits do not necessarily need to have merit, but they will certainly ruin a blogger’s day when they have to defend themselves. Disclosures or not, I think its coming – If McDonalds can be sued for hot coffee, a blog can be sued for saying how great a Carnival Cruise line CC is.
@ Richard: As you may have guessed , I agree. Yes I am all for personal responsibility of course but why enable to such a ridiculous degree? Trophy husband? Dreaming (about the Cardinal card?). I mean, that just crossed my line and I had to say something in my little blog. And you know what, I felt better #selftherapy Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment
@ LHFlyer: I have wondered about exactly that for a long time! Amazing it hasn’t happened yet. But I think they are covered by the “disclosures’ hidden somewhere. I went on one cruise in my life. It was on a Carnival ship. Paid for with that 100k Capital One Venture card promos. I remember looking at the Carnival card on the ship and had a hard time to control myself from laughing. Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment. And for the RTs on Twitter.
No problem, thanks for not flaming me with a napalm infused water gun! 🙂
There is a lot more praise and kindness that is dished out here than the whole blogosphere.
Sometimes I admit I lose it but it only happens with content that deserves it 😉
As someone whose husband has testified before Congress about the problem of credit card debt, I can tell you that there are a lot of people who get into trouble with credit. As he poured out the large bag of credit card solicitations on to the table (back when they used to come in the mail to our minor children), he highlighted how out of hand it had become. That was years ago, long before all the travel reward cards and resultant blogger upsell had begun. This blog appeals to me in part because it is a place where someone dares to speak out about the problem of selling credit cards. It is not a benign thing and the current travel credit card niche does it in enough of a cavalier way, that I think a blog that offers critique of this practice is long overdue…
In the mail today my two kids got applications for the Alaska Airlines cards. Yep, it is still the same and still very sad.
Not sure what the US equivalent is, but there are some signs in the UK that you may need a Consumer Credit Licence soon to promote credit cards by anything other than running an affiliate display ad.
It wouldn’t impact me as I already have the full suite of financial services qualifications but it would hit others, especially as it would effectively bring in a £1,000 sign up for starting a blog (the licence cost).
This would be great to see here because I think I have a good shot of qualifying 😉
Only in America you can have anyone without any qualifications at all peddle financial products that can ruin people on the internet. Then again only here it was allowed to shove subprime crap down everyone’s throats around the world. I better stop before I start ranting 🙂
Hey George, Rome2Rio is pretty accurate for Peru & Bolivia too! Very helpful site! I’ve been traveling the last month so had daily posts queued up to keep the blog active. Hopefully people enjoyed my Sri Lanka reports. I had very little internet access – Surface conked out so only an iPhone to check emails. I came home to a Feedly with almost 3000 posts! Once I get real life caught up, I’ll begin the posts about Western Australia and the Aussie Outback………….and some stunning birds of course!
thanks for the great tip about rome2rio. I used it yesterday to research Potosi to Santa Cruz, and Potosi to La Paz (trying to decide which airport to fly out of, and the buses to get to that airport). I found it to be pretty accurate. As far as buses go, it only gives you the direct buses, but that’s OK. As you know, you can get from anywhere to anywhere else in South America by pueblo hopping on combis and collectivos, but the website is great for giving you travel times, and deciding if you want to bus it or fly. I meant to comment on your blog yesterday, but I have been busy burning points and miles on my daughter’s honeymoon trip to Europe, and my upcoming trip to Bolivia. Hope to see the flamingos there at Uyani.
Tara, just tried to comment on your blog, but it says I am giving the wrong answer to the captcha. You might want to take a look at this.
+1 guera, I tried to debug Tara’s captcha issues with her for weeks and finally I gave up. I wish she would try something else because it really gets her nowhere (and frustrates her readers who want to write in)
I too just found rome2rio last week and it is working well for Spain too. It truly beats having to look on various (foreign) sites to compare bus, train, and airplane!
Sorry about the captcha issues. I am still not sure what is causing it. I didn’t have much time to look at it in depth before because I was organizing the Aussie trip (in conjunction with a UK tour operator) for a group. I do have some stuff to catch up on but I will try to find a better human verification system. Before I was getting maybe 5 real comments for each 500 spam ones and it was exhausting me trying to weed through the spam. What I basically want is something where the commenter only has to do the captcha once, then the system recognizes them and lets them comment normally afterwards. But I want it to prevent spammers from being able to post at all, not just let them post and have it go to a spam folder.
@ Tara: I get 3,000 posts on Feedly in about 30 hours or so #nojoke Yeah, thanks for that website, very helpful. I have been enjoying your posts. The Yomadic guy was recently in SriLanka and now is in his home country of Australia, check out his blog/Facebook page.
@ guera: Good to see more accuracies on the Rome2Rio site! Burn burn burn 🙂
Congratulations on your post today. You have clearly expressed your personal opinion on two blog actions without rant. Ring, screaming, demeaning and swearing. It holds far more credence when delivered in this manner. Thank you again.
I do have one comment I’d like to express regarding the credit card industry and our hobby. We are dealing with PREMIUM credit cards here that require a credit score of over 700 to obtain approval for. A recent check of the spread of credit scores indicates that the credit card industry has self policed themselves in fact as only the top roughly one half of consumers have scores high enough to qualify for approval for these cards. In light of this fact and the need for people to be accountable for their own actions, I think some of the concern for “pimping” being too tempting for the readers is overblown. They have already shown, with their 700+ credit scores, they are personally accountable for their actions.
I certainly hope your efforts towards influencing readers is not a movement toward further government intervention into the private lives of Americans. We need to be accountable for our own actions.
Thanks again George for your civil post today.
Rick
And thank you for YOUR civil post. It brings to mind something that I have been wondering about, and you are exactly the right person to ask. How much manufacturing spend is possible without having a huge negative result on your credit score? I have been dabbling in this recently, to the tune of less than 10k a month, and have noticed a drop in my score of about 20 points. How are people doing 20k-50k or more without destroying their scores? I would hate to have a denial on a credit card with a 50k sign on bonus because I have been grinding away for a few extra miles with MS.
It’s referred to as ‘gardening’ over on fat wallet. Done wrong, $1000 per month can significantly lower your score. Done right, $100,000 per month will have no effect. Try studying this discussion, and make sure all but 1 (or maybe 2) of your personal cards report a zero balance http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1505646-fico-score-getting-killed-i-am-obviously-doing-wrong-fico-utilization.html
Thanks Kenny. I will apply the strategies discussed here. Score dropped from 790 to 770, not too bad,still getting approvals, but why not keep it as high as possible, right?
Thanks KennyB for that link, it would prove helpful for some. I was never that mindful of my score as it has always been high and have always had way too high credit limits.
They are keeping their outstanding balances at less than 50% of their credit limit. If it gets over 50, it will decrease your score when reported.
Rick
I HATE that! I was left, by my husband’s death, with some $50k in CC debt (which I have paid down, these past nearly-3 years to $23k)… I did the SMART thing — compacted the debts onto a zero-percent card and a 1.9% card — which puts their utilization above 80% each. My other cards are all under 10% (or at zero% utilization — I just charge a little bit every couple months to keep them active). But that high utilization shouldn’t be a strike against me, it’s the best possible use of a credit card debt there is. (But then, the world IS unfair!)(sigh)
Considering the circumstances, you did the right thing.
Excuse me but the “screaming and demeaning” here maybe is all in your head? I am no screamer and certainly no demeaner.(is that a real word?). Yes I have a very strong bias against the “sell sell sell at all costs” culture I admit and sometimes I lose it but always in a respectful and entertaining manner. You would be doing this stuff here again if Wallet Slot was starting to write at FTG. As far as swearing I like to throw a few WTFs here and there for emphasis and pure entertainment purposes. If that turns people off they can read Oprah. But thanks for the compliment.
Just wondering, is Carnival considered a “premium” card?
We obviously disagree on the degree of personal responsibility vs enabling. But that’s okay.
@ guera: GREAT question. Mine dips a little here and there but have not noticed such a substantial drop like yours. But then again I was never Marathon Man or DCbroker type 🙂 I am not greedy and I don’t like to get in trouble and be blacklisted by my favorite banks;-) And I am a bit paranoid about my patterns and usage of cards (diversifying,etc.). I am very gradually raising my MS on my Blue and Arrival cards about 10k each now until next month raising it a little more to avoid flags. Overcautious? Perhaps. I don’t have time burning lately the stash I have so it is okay 🙂
carnival Premium card? Certainly not in my opinion. I’d never recommend it. but I have no knowledge or inclination if the issuing bank grants it to anybody that is breathing and has a pulse or requires a past show of credit responsibility. I think one of the faux credit score sites lists the lowest reported credit score, but I have not checked.
When you approach 50% of your credit limit! pay down the card and start over.
Good, solid contributions today so far, Rick. I added a little something to our civil discussion from a couple of posts ago, but I notice you did not reply to me. So, I posted in your own FTG blog a post, hoping to (re-)start a civil, ideas-based discussion there. Will you join me? 🙂
The gang at IB responds to those comments unless directed to me explicitly. Let me know how they do and if not satisfactory, send me an email at rick@frugaltravelguy.com and ask for me directly to answer. They will then forward
Ariana did a good job and said IB would make a change going forward. Hard to know if her statement will get passed around or not. TIme will tell.
But this gets back to what I mentioned before about your idea to have people write directly to bloggers when they make a mistake (or jut need to put more cautions out there): it’s time consuming and not really the role of all us readers to do this policing. I think the bloggers should self-police. If they can’t do that, then a blog like TBB might serve some purpose to keep them on straight and narrow. If TBB’s blog can’t do that, then the government may need to step in.
Anyway, I’ve said my piece on this now over a few days. It was fun bouncing ideas off of you, Rick. Let’s please keep the conversation on ideas and not personal.
I would love the government pay me to police this space. I hear they have some good pensions 🙂
I have no illusions of keeping bloggers straight and narrow. I am just one guy with a blog. I am shocked people care what I say actually 🙂 I wish I had more time to devote to this. I am doing my best to provide a worthy read and do my part to make the world a better place for all!
To the person who got the SPG card with that 5k referral link from me, thank YOU!
And to everyone who keeps using my Amazon link thank YOU too!
Even better than the Lifehacker article, let me pimp the American Standard Champion 4 toilet. They are simply amazing. had 2 for 5 years and they have never been clogged. Even have a toddler make his best efforts.
I will look for that in Amazon, create an affiliate product link and start pimping it all over here. “have you been dreaming about never being clogged. Here is the solution, click my link and buy a dozen!”
Lol
Very timely article. There are some clogs that just can’t be solved without a professional. At work, we had a clog we couldn’t remove. So we called in the plumber, who fixed the problem in 5 minutes. At least now we know what happened to our shipper’s box cutter!
>>>>>>> At least now we know what happened to our shipper’s box cutter!
Wow!!!
While reasonable people can disagree over how damaging the credit card shilling is, it seems obvious to me that your blog is necessary to at least make some other “moral” bloggers THINK about their approach to this matter. I mean, just look at ViewFromTheWing this weekend. That’s probably the gold standard of these blogs, and he has two recent posts that strike me as classic examples of Posts That Would Not Be Made If Not For the Referral Fees. Sunday: “Should You Get the Ink Plus or the Ink Bold.” Saturday: “If You Could Have Only One Card, Which Would It Be.”
Of course, human nature being what it is, I don’t think “morality” can stop this assault. The only thing that can is money — in this case, if the banks stopped paying big referral bonuses to blogs. I’d prefer if the banks realized these links weren’t actually so profitable for them (because of the gamers), but I don’t know the data on this (the bloggers won’t be looking for it!). The other alternative is that gov’t regulates these commercial links. I’m not sure how I feel about that.
@ iahphx: Gary goes on these little sprees once in a while but this weekend was indeed too much. And I wonder if there is something behind this. Are they all scared of losing their precious Chase links suddenly because there are stricter quotas? Or is it because they received notice that at some date soon the practice will stop and they are all trying to squeeze a little more revenue? I do not know and, what gets me about this industry,is we will never know because there is no transparency.
Of course “morality” won’t stop it. It is based on personal values and greed and need to put food on the table. What will stop it IS money. Banks are not that stupid, at the end they are for profit enterprises. This IS profitable for them (and very profitable for us enthusiasts!) because some are getting taken for a ride. Bad for them, they are primarily responsible for it of course. But this has greater quality of life and financial costs for the whole society that is easily dismissed while counting the convenient dough.
Yeah it is a much deeper issue. I read all these blogs to create the Buzz posts and my eyes are assaulted daily non stop. And I don’t get a pension like cops or fire fighters for being in the line of duty (stupid joke).
Thanks and have a great week!
Are we certain these affiliate links ARE profitable for the banks? I’m not certain. The banks seem VERY stupid to me. I mean, I love getting all these credit card bonuses and 5x spending bonuses, but if I’m running these credit card programs, there’s NO WAY I’d allow this nonsense. Like I can’t understand why any bank would allow you to collect more than 2 or 3 sign up bonuses from them TOTAL for all cards in a year. And I’d make sure to deny the apps of anyone who applied for more than 6 credit cards in a year. I would also cap category bonuses to something like $500 in spending per month. If you need more drugs than that in a month, that’s your problem, not mine!
I mean, these are common sense business solutions. Yet the banks generally don’t do them. So what makes you think they really know whether it’s profitable to hawk these cards on the frequent flyer “gamer” blogs?
we gamers are priced into the income model for the cards. they know we exist. a VP for one of the cards called me out on it face to face two years ago but has done nothing to eliminate their problem. their noses are bent out of shape BUT, in their eyes blogs are still profitable. the gamers are a tiny percentage of the population and literally thousands of people have got cards through me just one at a time per their emails.
Ingy, I can’t help but wonder, though, *why* the blogs are still profitable for the banks? Does that mean that some of those thousands of people are “messing up” / not playing the game smart?
I tend to agree with you, I think, on the personal accountability angle, but could/should blogs be doing more to educate? I remember years ago that cc posts would usually include at least a token discussion of the consequences of opening cards, multiple cards, etc. (ironically, the app-o-rama posts probably provided more education than you see on anything today). Now it’s just assumed that you should be opening either the Ink Bold or the Ink Plus.
Richard 12:49 PM. Answered below the fees and fact that the gamers are just a small minority. They have in their model what percentage will pay in full, what percentage will pay late and earn them interest and late fees.and what percentage will pay on time where they only get the 3.5 % merchant fee.
Should blogs do more to educate? I’m stuck on that one. I believe that our personal conversations with people that wrote us or me were very conservative during my ownership. It was standard practice to tell them to go slow and start small but here was the max we thought they could get. Then it was their responsibility to decide how hard to play the game. I always gave people the benefit of the doubt as they had achieved 700 score and I believed with my warnings they were acting with full knowledge. I will admit that does not happen now, but I can’t tell others how to run their shows, just give my opinions. And for the most part bloggers don’t listen to me anymore than this group does. The rookies though I felt very comfortable with in our discussions and warnings.
After all that long winded reply, yes we can’t overemphasize that your credit is one of your most important assets. Look what it has given us in terms of free travel and now cash in our pockets with MS. I have friends green with envy they can’t play the MS game and they need the money. Should have watched their credit shouldn’t they? I sleep very well at night with how I have handled the communications
I was discussing similar with someone tonight.
My take – in the UK, FT gamers are actually good Amex customers. You may churn a bit at the start, but you settle down with some Amex cards, usually BA Premium Plus, and Amex wins.
However …. there are Fatwallet style sites in the UK pushing Amex cards to the general public due to fat bonuses. You are recommended to redeem for Amazon gift cards. These clients will NEVER be good amex clients long term. These are middle income people who only want to carry one card so, due to acceptance issues, it will not be Amex. THIS is the issue to address.
Hey Raffles, we can put together an “International Manufactured Spending Congress” to teach attendees how they can manufacture spend in every continent, every country, every city 24/7. Darn it, I should not have a glass of wine right before my Monday night soccer game!
Can you imagine the hotel meeting points we can clear this way, wow!!!!
The above is pure baseless fantasies by your host because I just felt like it!
There are some real fruitcakes running US banks…
I think it is similar to what happened in the book “Bringing Down the House” about card counters in Vegas. The casinos hated those guys, but they really like it when the books started to come out because it made the average person feel they could make money counting cards as well. Instead, those individuals did not make any money but still felt like they were winning, the house kept its advantage, and the authors made their money from the book. So, in different ways, all won! I think it is similar to the banks and cards sometimes.
This is actually a great analogy. The ones who did NOT win were the ones who bought the book and went there and got cleaned out and then had to beg for money to catch a ride home…Damn fools!
Jeez, Gary is continuing his ignominious streak. Today: “Which Cards Are Best for Spend While Travelling Internationally.” The answer, of course, is Chase.
Something must be up with the banks. If Gary keeps this up I will have to take him down from my glorious “Like” list so he can lose two credit card apps per month 🙂
I do not have any direct knowledge of numbers but I must agree with Rick (OMG!) that the whole practice is still profitable for the banks. This niche group has gotten larger (see how fast the seminars sell out!) but still remains a small piece of the pie that even if they churn the hell out of the cards (something that appears to be ending, is MS next to go?) they still make money because some bozo newbie goes at it and then bang, something happens in their life, and they fall behind. No doubt that this happens often enough. It is awful. This is what drives me nuts when I see things like the FTG tool (or the Wallet Slot or so many others) where as a “rookie traveler” with no cards looking for a cash back card I am being recommended with 7 credit cards and told to apply for them all in the same day! Rick, please don’t get out of shape here again. If you really have no part in that, at least can you get them to completely take off your name and not have the tool results sent to you via email? You have bragged here how many got cards using that tool. I have no doubt in my mind many got enough miles and points to travel and also no doubt that many got badly hurt. Yep, that’s their fault but this whole thing hurts us all in the end. C’est la vie? Maybe but I still don’t think it’s a noble and constructive thing to do for humanity. Off the soap box.
They are not going to take my name off the site, YET. And I may extend if offered that is still up in the air. But we do disagree on the number of people hurt. My email address has always been available and I ask the question each year in Chicago how many have been hurt by their churning activity. In four years in Chicago I got one hand raised and in the 6 years I’ve been promoting churning cards I have yet to receive a letter saying I got somebody in trouble. I know, I know you’ll say they are too embarrassed to admit it but you guys have proven you will say way more anonymously than you would face to face. I had it happen in a PM exchange with a reader here last week.
I think people with these scores for the most part are accountable and if they screw up they realize it is their own fault. It is really a pretty long distance sell for me when somebody blames the card advocate for their own stupidity. My opinion only of course.
We clearly disagree on this issue. We agree on the fact that personal responsibility should be exercised at all times because, well, it is the responsible thing to do. We definitely do not agree on the degree of marketing pitches and decibels deployed to get them to “close” and the (lack of) proper disclosures that should be presented in a VERY upfront and visible format.
You will never get people involved in this to come out and say I got hurt by it. NEVER. I am shocked that even one had the guts to do it in Chicago,. Screwing up in your finances carries a lot of shame and hurt and can lead to severe consequences. Mostly to the ones around them unfortunately. And there is a whole lot of enabling going on. Therefore, I do admire bloggers who do try to do it in a non in your face non stop fashion. It most likely affects their pocket but hey, it’s only money. Doing the right thing for society should come first! Pumping non stop the advantages of the hobby (and there are many of course….but diminishing gradually) and almost NEVER about what can happen is, well, awful. And that’s my opinion. In my blog 🙂
So what’s up with Chase? Any big developments behind the scenes?
Buzzzzzzz…. that Rome2Rio site reminds me of a time I was at the São Paulo airport in December 2011… I was flying to Houston, and trying to find a working outlet and wifi signal in an airport that is put to shame by the one in Buffalo…. The flight boarding across the way is going direct to Milão… where they have the fashion week and all the designers … the late boarding passengers are all six-feet tall examples of the finest physical specimens of womankind … straight from the southern plains of Brazil to the catwalks of Milano … what they calls “os tops” in Brazil…. I almost gave up my ticket then and there to go find a seatmate on that flight … Buzz the knuckleheads in this hobby may have their champagne and fish eggs … but darned if one of the goals in life shouldn’t be to find the best “new” seatmates and make them old friends … and I’m talking about real benefits at 35,000 feet!… those folks at Rome2Rio are off by two cities and backwards … the good stuff is found on SãoPaulo2Milano!… NOOBITUP!
[harvson3]
Sorry for replying late, I was looking for award space on that flight, woohoo!
Lots of thought-provoking points in the comments today and I do appreciate the level of civility. Thank you, all.
As someone still relatively new to MS, what I wonder is at what point one needs to bother with the intricacies of whether you should have a 2% utilization across all cards or 0% on all but 2; pay your bill weekly or bi-weekly or with autopay; yada, yada, yada….$10,000 a month? $10,000 a week? $10,000 a day?
We travel just a few times a year and ramping up MS might enable me to go Bus not Coach now and then, but I really have no need to go whole hog, especially if I need to then worry about and check on my credit utilization on a daily basis. I live in a CVS-less place so the opportunities are more limited from the get-go, although I do have access to the infamous XXX factor, at least for now.
The other point is well made. I sometimes want to convince those skeptical of my new hobby of why they should indulge, and of all the bennies they are leaving on the table, but probably best not to, except for people who I think can indeed manage it well and who approach me.
But not always: One friend who admires what I do and asks about it all the time said he wanted me to teach his college-age daughter, so she can get a free trip to study abroad, but I knew immediately I wouldn’t touch that one with a ten foot pole. I have no idea of how she would handle credit. The amazing part is her dad is a financial planner! He claims he doesn’t travel hack himself because he doesn’t want to spend the time.
To each his own!
Again , pay your bill down to zero when you approach the 50% of credit limit amount. Example: If you have a card with a $20K limit and you get to $10K in MS spend, pay it down to $0 before doing the next $10K of MS spend. Both overall and individual credit utilization ion your cards is a factor in determining your score. As a banker I want to see a guy that can keep his spending under 50% of the credit I granted him.
Thank you!
I need to find time to do a post on providing caution to newbies. It is VERY easy to lose sense of it all in this hobby after the first scores and you realize, hey this is cool, I am ready for more!
And of course there is an endless supply of bloggers out there who cheer you on (with their endless credit card links of course).
You must find a system that works for YOU. The system must be tailored in complexity to YOU. And all revolved around the time available to YOU. We are all different. Experiment a little here and there as time allows. But don’t make this a priority in life (sometimes I have lost that perspective, we all do in this crazy hobby….but blogging about it now has given me an even deeper perspective of this passion of mine).
Personally, as stated previously, I have not bothered with being too mindful of this 50% of my credit limit. Then again, I no longer churn every 91 days and my credit lines are always on the higher side (for the cards I am interested in using more). I don’t like to prepay in my credit cards. This does lead to more scrutiny by the banks. I like to diversify and not let cards totally dead (darn it, I need to get my Southwest and Club Carlson cards out of my drawer again!). In other words, be a good bank customer so they never think of dumping me. Less greedy enthusiasts always get to play longer. Besides, I can’t even use the miles/points I have now! So I am at a different phase of the miles/points evolution I guess…
I did stop at CVS earlier today and bought some VRs to load up to my mvd as estimated tax payments are coming up soon!
And on it goes….just enjoy the journey!
Yes, totally agree. We need to be mindful of both what is comfortable for us personally as well as how many miles/points we really need to bank. Allowing for a cushion of course. I just learned yesterday that my brother-in-law got engaged and my reaction, almost before feeling really happy for him, was “good thing I’ve got all those miles!” because it will mean an unexpected trip abroad for a wedding at least for one of us.
The other point you made in one of your comments is important too: everyone takes a risk in doing this. No matter how good your credit is, how organized you are, how much of an emergency fund you have, etc, life happens! People get sick, people lose jobs, the main breadwinner of a family dies, tornadoes strike. The ability to play the game today does not mean one always can or should and a newbie who stretches a bit knowing full well what he or she is doing is especially at risk. By the time the bills come, the situation may have changed, or the MSing that seemed so easy may have hit a road block and suddenly that money is in limbo. It is a game that can bring quick rewards, but it can go badly awry very fast too.
Looking forward to your post for newbies…I hope you make it a permanent page so I can direct people to it. (IMO, it should have a fair amount of warning, not just about your credit, but also about the “endless supply of bloggers out there who cheer you on”. I have been bitten a couple of times, not just by blogger giving bad advice but also by them forgetting to mention a few important things (like time between churnings).
Here’s another idea: why don’t you create a little gif/icon that has a picture of a guy giving a thumbs-up and words “TBB approved” underneath it. It could be a clickable link that will point to a page on your site where the rules for being “approved” is explained. The idea is that other websites—those that follow the rules–are allowed to display the icon.
Posting how much time to wait between churning cards, on one website, would be a dumb idea. The banks do read blogs, though they usually only act out when things are spelled out way to clearly.
Some things are better left to PM and personal exchanges.
I always run out of time, I just can not be like Gary pumping five posts a day (well, lately, that would mean 3 credit card posts a day and two other ones lol). I wonder when or if I will ever get to the Centurion Amex lounge in Dallas review, I have the pictures. Going through Feedly blogs takes a lot of time and I do have another career and busy family. It all comes down to time, I am trying. As usual, my thing here is the Buzz posts. If I can squeeze something else in it would be great.
I love your ideas by the way and thank you! I just don’t have the capacity to devote the time to do them! I still do not have an email list and Facebook page! I am afraid to add yet another dimension on the blog to suck even more time from me 🙂
I need to get through the tax season and get out of Dodge to Maui and then I re evaluate this TBB journey!
TBB, I hope one day you find the time for that particular page. It is sorely missing from this game of ours: a good explanation of what to watch out for. I would love to be able to point my friends to a page that explains that this hobby has people who are touting cards that might not be the best choice, etc. Right now, if I point them to your blog, they get a mess (sorry) of different stuff thrown at them and it looks crazy to them. (It’s fun to us to have a look into your mind, but perhaps a little scary for the newbie. :-))
Yuneeq, I was NOT suggesting to post time between churns (if you re-read my post you will see that). Rather, the issue I have is the pumpers may tell you it is OKAY to reapply for a card that you already had but that they never tell you you have to wait–maybe wait 2 years! They don’t care if you don’t wait because—why do you think?–you will still use their link and still get approved…..BUT, you do not get the signon bonus. Do you see my point? A newbie just getting into this hobby will hit this pitfall!
I was burned twice by a pumper (no names but he’s not on TBB’s “good guy list”) on this particular point–one for me , one for wife–and it still rankles me.
On behalf of the pumper, thanks for the conversions!
I know what you mean, hope I get to do it. In the meantime, there is no worse feeling than getting a text from my tenant that the front porch has sunk! Insurance claim filed, estimates, builders adjusters and all this crap…Last thing I needed right now…
Gary has been on (Sap)phire these past few days!
Can a few suckers please click his links so he’ll meet whatever quota he needs to, and we can get back to the good Gary?
If I wanted to know something about the CSP,…. and then 35 more things about the CSP all of which require it’s own post, I would visit the FTG blog (for reasons other than to get a good laugh)
There are reasons other than a good laugh to visit the FTG blog?
Remember the bank are collecting 3.5% approximately on every transaction in merchant fees regardless if it is a 5 point category or a one point.
As I said before the onslaught and my sale, I always tried to write about the dangers or at least caution people. It does indeed seem to be going by the wayside although we still do see occasionally a mention of the 700 credit score threshold
George the above two comments are the reason it is so difficult to stay calm. They will slash even when we are trying to be civil.
Maybe they are doing it because they know you will react in a flippant way? I suggest you ignore and keep on topic, you will look MUCH better this way. Please notice the comments were directed to the FTG blog (and Gary’s blog!) and NOT to you personally! It is NOT about you until YOU make it so by replying in your usual manner!
Steve and FFHigh: Guys please. I know it is hard from past history but please let’s all make an effort.
So Rick, enlighten us. What is up with Chase and the affiliates? I mean, they are already down to not that many left. Is Chase about to cut down more? For Gary Leff to go on a credit card spree like that is very unusual! I think something major is happening behind the scenes, I can feel it. And with all the usual roadblocks (devaluations, Amex new policies on churning, etc.).
Also, when is you NonCompete completely over and you can freely speak your mind (like, with real numbers and stuff)? I think gamers will be very interested to learn about this stuff. Or you can write a book to keep you entertained, Lord knows I have done my part (joking ok?).
Darn Feedly number, over 330 again, gotta run!
“Please notice the comments were directed to the FTG blog (and Gary’s blog!) and NOT to you personally! It is NOT about you until YOU make it so by replying in your usual manner!”
In the year or 2 before IB took over the blog, it was even worse.
The blog used to be superb, but lets not delude ourselves in thinking that the craptitude of the blog started AFTER it was sold. The “Deals of the Day” make the travel challenge look pulitzer-worthy by comparison
It hasn’t exactly gotten better since it was sold. It went from amateur to dry and repetitive.
I have heard nothing about or from Chase about any further tightening. That is all happening with Amex as far as I can see. As far as the length of my NDA if you look at my comment at 6:10PM and look at the year I sold my blog you should have a good idea when it is up, but I’m not at liberty to say I don’t think.
No more books for me. Just a Reality show on Manufactured Spending 🙂 Joke Gotcha
Ok, thanks.
Sorry you didn’t like the Deal of the Day. It was my idea and we had a loyal following that thought it was the best part of the blog. Towards the end it got to be filler material when the significant deals dried up. I can agree to that
Can’t please all the people all the time and have learned to never try.
I already started talking last week about the demise of F2B and the rise of the Saverocity group of blogs
Thanks to Wallet Slot and Matt respectively for helping make my point better than I ever could
I think Wallet Slot might’ve taken over the top spot from DealsWeLike in the all-important “What the heck is the purpose of this blogs existence and how did it ever get on BA/F2B” category
Arrival Card = Trophy husband?
Carnival Card = dreaming about such card
I am still shaking my head. I have stopped the beating up of blogs after my 1 year anniversary for the most part. I only do it when things totally upset me and just can’t control myself. It is like doing therapy, my own!
I just saw Lucky also go on a Chase card link spree too. Something is happening with Chase behind the scenes…
“I have stopped the beating up of blogs after my 1 year anniversary for the most part”
That’s why us readers are here to step in for you
I’ll call out crap when it’s crap, and praise what deserves to be praised
I regularly praise Gary, but the content for the past few days have been disgusting, and I’ll note such. Wallet Slot = crap. Saverocity (the blogger and the network) is continuously coming up with great content, and I’ll compliment such
If certain bloggers are getting all flustered by my pointing out crap when I see it, their best course of action is to not post crap
>>>>>>>>>>>If certain bloggers are getting all flustered by my pointing out crap when I see it, their best course of action is to not post crap.
Yes!
Or, as I used to say, please feel free to make it to my two good lists 🙂
Here’s a theory: Wallet Slot is a paid shill in the mold of “FTG Staff” — Stacey, the one who originally came out against these links when starting F2B, is the one behind it. Otherwise, who is Wallet Slot? What’s their FT username?
And why does this appear now, when bloggers are jumping ship over (rumored) financial problems/not getting paid what’s been promised and due to them? Desperation sets in. Follow the money.
Today it was talking up that app by the Noob Traveler. I wonder what’s for tomorrow?
“Get Amex Platinum for the Lounge benefit”
If WS pushes the Spirit Air….OMG!
maybe another surge protector review? I know when I left the partnership, she mentioned 3 more bloggers coming on board. We’ve seen 2 I think. If there was some ‘value added’ to something like wallet slot it would be OK, but it looks like its just a cut/paste from the affiliate website…..
One more question for you more experienced guys: can I do a churn for my husband the same day they do a credit pull for the refi we are applying for? I want to get him the 100,000 AA CITI card before that offer disappears and I saw rumors on some blog – wish I remembered whose – of its possible demise next week…. His last churn was in October.
The folks we have been speaking with about the refi (broker and credit union) both said that any mortgage pulls over two weeks merge into one, and that cc pulls are separate, but I think it best to not go for the card either the day before the refi pull, or the day after…hence a churn that very day.
Is this a good idea or am I missing something? Thanks!
Hmm, hard to tell.
I always thought this advice was a bit of a stretch for ME. I have dealt with the same guy for a very long time who knows what I do as a hobby and my assets and my money management skills. He knows I am a very good risk so my pulls don’t really matter much at all.
Just so you don’t cut it too close why don’t you go for the card the day after the refi pull?
Considering how much potential money you’re probably talking about with this refinance, I would take the “if you even have to ask the question, you probably shouldn’t do it” route
If I’m in your shoes, I’m going ultra-conservative with this and not doing anything until I know the refi is taken care of. The AA signup bonus is a relative pittance
We too are dealing with someone who has written our mortgages and refis (and our daughter’s) and we have a super long history with her – over 15 years at least. While she knows we have great credit she does need to show it to others. We will compare her deal with what our credit union offers. Considering we have lots of equity in the house, I see the refi as a slam dunk. I’m actually more concerned about how the refi will impact CC apps than the opposite!
Will the refi app impact approval for CCs? I expect they’ll surely see it if I do the churn afterwards. Thanks!
Under your circumstances with a strong equity position and I’m assuming a good credit score, I would not be too concerned about the one card app. I will note that with FNMA/FHMC applications that you want a score over 740 to obtain the lest closing costs on your mortgage. In recent years it meant 3/4 of a point in closing costs if under 740.
sorry the word was “least” not “lest” and if you can’t get that card app approved because of the refi, well I’ll start a class in reconsideration phone calls 🙂
Man, MileValue is really getting a lot of bang for his buck when it comes to the Arrival card sign up bonus
It seems like every time he brings it up, he talks about how he used the 40000 point sign up bonus to book his travel on this given trip.
Amazing how after he seemingly used the 40000 points for dozens of prior trips over the past few months, yet still had enough for hotels and rental cars on his March Madness travels
Maybe he did one of those 14-browser maneuvers and picked up a whole slew of Arrival cards?
Arrival Card —-> constant free one ways to MV’s bank account 🙂
MEOW! bwahahaha!!
It might be time to start completing this form every time a non-disclosed material relationship is discovered or a non-disclosed affiliate link is posted: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Details#crnt
I think the disclosures are “somewhere” on the site. Good luck finding them, bring magnifying glasses 🙂
I think it should be disclosed every time an affiliate link is presented. As this
Chase Ink Bold [$$$ AFFILIATE LINK] in bold font too! But it would hurt conversions 🙂
haha, yeah… I think the new FTC guidelines say that required disclosures should be conspicuous and within close proximity to the content. While your example Iikely fits the bill, the blanket disclosure found in a tiny .jpg or on another page likely doesn’t!
I will give Gary a little bit of slack, as you say he binges on the cc pimping only every once in a while. But for the most part I think his blog has a good signal to noise ratio. On the other hand…you have TPG…I think half of the posts are related to cc pimping. The new “Hawaiian series” is just ridiculous. HA miles can be good for some very specific purposes, but generally not a great value for the average Joe.
No doubt. Gary is still on my Like list and deservedly so. The current binge is a little more than usual and more in duration than usual. Maybe he has to make enough for his upcoming estimated tax payments 🙂
My team beat our nemesis 3-2 tonight. Greatest feeling in the world to see them congratulate us at the end of the game after trying everything at us. This is the third time we beat this team in many years of playing several games against them every year. They don’t lose many games. Everything hurts so good…Zzzzzzz
Hey, even Manchester United will lose a game from time to time. 😉
…tomorrow, even if they win….I predict they will lose!
Well, I sure hope they don’t take it out on the greek team (which is almost full of Spaniards)
I started using http://reservationcounter.com/
when traveling. It has really hot deals. Definitely worth it to take a look.